Those of you who found evidence in Ray Franz's books against the WT, what verifiable evidence did you find? I am interested to learn about it.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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Liberal vs. Conservative mental health study - what do you make of it?
by Brock Talon ina pew study from 2020 (but one i just now came upon myself) reported that the more liberal you are, the more likely you are to have a mental health condition.
the worst suffering group are white females, ages 18-29 where over 56% have admitted to be described by their own doctors as having a mental health condition.
conservative females of the same age group suffer at less than half that number (27%).. while women tend to have more mental health problems than men (don't be mad at me for saying it, this is what the study reports) it is notable that liberal men have a higher percentage of mental health conditions than conservative women in the same age group.
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Disillusioned JW
I'm just now starting to read this topic thread, thus I haven't yet read the Pew report, but what I notice thus far is that the articles that are discussing it are only comparing conservatives and liberals who are WHITE. For example in the articles there appears to be no mention about black liberals versus whites (liberal or conservative). Maybe the black liberals have less mental problems than white conservatives. ;)
Studies that I have seen say that atheists in the USA know more facts about the Bible (such as the names of the biblical books and the commandments of the 10 commandments) than do Christians in the USA; that a higher percentage of atheists in the USA have higher formal education and higher pay than do Christians in the USA (with Christians of very conservative denominations/churches [such as baptists, Mormons and JWs] having less education and pay than those of liberal denominations/churches [such as Unitarian/Universalists and Episcopalians]); that the percentage of atheists in the USA who are political liberal and aligned with the Democratic party is higher than people in the USA who are not atheists.
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What Should Have Been Their "Surname" or "Last Name"?
by titch inok, folks, so here's my question.
now then, assuming that you believe that there was an actual first man and a first woman, as the bible propounds, that had the name of "adam" and "eve" (as we have called them, in the english language) well, what do you think that their surname or last name would have been, or should have been?
that is, if they had surnames way back then, in the so-called "beginning" of human existence?
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Disillusioned JW
titch, I remember reading somewhere that the word/name adam just means "man" and the word/name eve just means "mother" or maybe "woman", and that as a result the (or "a"?) Jewish view is that the story(ies) in Genesis about them are meant as allegories (and that Adam and Eve were not historical persons). I am not sure if that idea I read is correct, but I think it might be since I noticed names of characters in Greek myths seemingly used that way. For example, the woman named Arachne who was a weaver who weaved story-like patterns into her items and is later turned into a spider (the first spider) by an angered goddess as punishment ("arachne" is the Greek word for "spider") and the story says that all other spiders are her offspring. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachne .
Also the man named Narcissus is said in a story to have fallen in love with himself. A nymph named Echo who loved him is punished by a goddess such that in speaking she can only do so by repeating the words (like an echo) of others (such as of Narcissus). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_(mythology) .
[If you think the biblical god character named Yahweh/Jehovah is mean and even evil (at least at times), a number of the Greek god characters (including goddesses) were far worse.]
I read the above Greek stories in the book called Bulfinch's Mythology and later in the book called Mythology by Edith Hamilton.
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Disillusioned JW
I think it is significant that I started having major doubts as a baptized JW at about age 30 (the same age that Jesus was allegedly baptized and began his ministry). People shouldn't be allowed to officially join a religion (especially a cult or cult-like one) prior to age 21, especially prior to age 18. In the USA people can't enter a legally binding contract until age 18, so they also shouldn't be able to officially join a religion prior to age 18 and people shouldn't be able to baptize them as babies (nor at any other time against or without their consent).
Major things that caused to seriously doubt the religion were the following (not necessarily in temporal order and not necessarily in the order of importance).
- The Revelation book claiming that the resolutions in the 1920s-1930s (or so) were the trumpet blast of angels (or Earthly fulfillments of such)
- Seeing increased evidence of biological evolution
- Seeing doctrinal changes by the WT during the years I was a baptized JW and learning more about doctrinal changes that took place before I was even born.
- Learning more about the history of the WT religion by studying the Proclaimers book which came out around the year 1995 and learning more about failed prediction of the WT.
- The WT specifically changing their teachings of: when the great crowd comes into existence, the generation of 1914, Christ coming in his glory and when the sheep and goats get separated, blood fractions, WT's former UN NGO status, etc.
- Learning things from the internet about the WT, including about Beth Sarim
- Noticing that the Great Tribulation hasn't started yet and that 2 decades (in 1995) had passed since the year 1975; changes regarding the length of the creative days
- Noticing the flawed process of appointing servants to the congregation, when according to the WT the appointments are made by Jehovah and that the elders merely recognize Jehovah's choice for the appointments.
- Noticing to prayer to Jehovah for help doesn't work, even praying for help to conquer a habit which according to the WT is disapproved of by Jehovah God.
- Learning from the internet that biblical scholars and archaeologists are overwhelmingly in consensus that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 BCE or 587 BCE instead of 607 BCE.
- Seeing evidence in the WT's publications, including the way to quote non-WT publications, that show the WT is dishonest in many things they say.
There are probably more things I could add to this list, but I have to do other things now (nearly time to start getting ready to go to work) and thus I won't add the other things (if any) till later.
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What Do You Like About Biden's Build Back Better Agenda & the Democrat's Build Back Better Act?
by Disillusioned JW inwhat do you like about biden's build back better agenda & the democrat's build back better act?
is it liberal and progressive enough for you or do you wish it would go further?
https://www.vox.com/22711083/biden-reconciliation-build-back-better-polls-infrastructure has some comments about it.
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Disillusioned JW
What Do You Like About Biden's Build Back Better Agenda & the Democrat's Build Back Better Act? Is it liberal and progressive enough for you or do you wish it would go further? https://www.vox.com/22711083/biden-reconciliation-build-back-better-polls-infrastructure has some comments about it. From reading it I learned that apparently the official name of the reconciliation bill for the progressive portion of the infrastructural bill is called the Build Back Better Act.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/build-back-better/ is the official information source for Biden's Build Back Better Agenda.
I like the provisions for green energy as well as for lower health care costs and lower prescription drug costs.
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Does the Watchtower/JW Organization Regard its Readers & JWs as Fools and are they Secretly Laughing at Them?
by Disillusioned JW indoes the watchtower/jw organization regard its readers & jws as fools and are they secretly laughing at them?
for some examples consider the following.. the wt literature has many times used odd language where they say one thing but word it in such a way as to suggest something else.
they have said that a number of jws drew incorrect expectations about a number of things, including about 1914 and 1975, though it was the wt itself which proclaimed and taught those expectations in the wt's literature to jws.
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Disillusioned JW
Does the Watchtower/JW Organization Regard its Readers & JWs as Fools and are they Secretly Laughing at Them? I think it does. For some examples consider the following.
The WT literature has many times used odd language where they say one thing but word it in such a way as to suggest something else. They have said that a number of JWs drew incorrect expectations about a number of things, including about 1914 and 1975, though it was the WT itself which proclaimed and taught those expectations in the WT's literature to JWs. The WT, after they said it was a conscious matter for JWs to accept non-military service (such as being medical workers) instead of having to go to prison for refusal to engage in combat, said JWs were foolish to reject such an option - even though the WT previously said that those accepting such an option would be committing a grave wrong. A tremendous number of times the WT has made extravagant claims and have told JWs that they must agree with what the WT says or risk being shunned, yet later the WT abandoned a number of its claims saying their own claims were in error.
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Disillusioned JW
I notice that some of you mentioned that reading books by Ray Franz was a major influence. I purchased his Conflict book and read sections of it, but my impression was that much of what he said (such as claims of what took place in governing body meetings) are not claims which I could test. I was impressed by some other statements in his book, but not enough to prevent me from selling the book. What evidence did you folks find in Ray's books that was important to you?
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A group of 136 countries set a minimum global tax rate of 15% for big corporations
by Disillusioned JW ina group of 136 countries set a minimum global tax rate of 15% for big corporations.
that is a major goal accomplished by the biden administration.
seehttps://www.wsj.com/articles/countries-agree-to-global-deal-to-curb-tax-avoidance-11633709979 .. if corresponding legislation gets passed into law in the usa it will be much harder for corporations doing business in the usa to move their operations out of the usa to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.
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Disillusioned JW
A group of 136 countries set a minimum global tax rate of 15% for big corporations. That is a major goal accomplished by the Biden administration. Seehttps://www.wsj.com/articles/countries-agree-to-global-deal-to-curb-tax-avoidance-11633709979 .
If corresponding legislation gets passed into law in the USA it will be much harder for corporations doing business in the USA to move their operations out of the USA to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. It also would prevent those corporations with operations in the USA from having their headquarters outside of the USA as a successful way to avoid paying federal taxes (meaning they would have to pay the tax despite having their headquarters outside of the USA). Making corporations pay at least some amount of tax is something Elizabeth Warren campaigned for as a Presidential candidate for the Democratic party nomination. It is also what Joe Biden wanted. This is great news for USA workers.
The article says the following.
"Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said the floor set by the global minimum tax was a victory for the U.S. and its ability to raise money from companies. She urged Congress to move swiftly to enact the international tax proposals it has been debating, which would help pay for extending the expanded child tax credit and climate-change initiatives, among other policies.
... the signatories will have to change their national laws and amend international treaties to put the overhaul into practice. The signatories set 2023 as a target for implementation, which tax experts said was an ambitious goal."
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Steven Hassan on CNN today
by dropoffyourkeylee ina little surprised to see steven hassan interviewed today on cnn about the anti-vax believers and cult tactics.
here is the link:.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/10/02/steven-hassan-cult-misinformation-anti-vaxxers-ndwknd-vpx.cnn.
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Disillusioned JW
Thanks Pete Zahut for your post. People with the weird ideas you gave examples of should read a book by Carl Sagan called The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark. The book is copyright 1996. The back cover of a paperback edition from 1997 gives a good description of the book - one that is relevant to the discussion about Covid-19 vaccines. It says the following.
"How can we make intelligent decisions about our increasingly technology-driven lives if we don’t understand the difference between the myths of pseudoscience, New Age thinking, and fundamentalist zealotry and the testable hypotheses of science?
Casting a wide net through history and culture, Sagan examines and authoritatively debunks such celebrated fallacies of the past as witchcraft, faith healings, demons, and UFOs. And yet, disturbingly, in today’s so-called information age, pseudoscience is burgeoning, with stories of alien abduction, "channeling" past lives, and communal hallucinations commanding growing attention and respect. As Sagan demonstrates with lucid eloquence, the siren song of unreason is not just a cultural wrong turn but a dangerous plunge into darkness that threatens our most basic freedoms."
Chapter one of the book says the following.
"As amusing as some of pseudoscience may seem, as confident as we may be that we would never be so gullible as to be swept up by such a doctrine, we know it's happening all around us. Transcendental Meditation and Aum Shinriko seem to have attracted a large number of accomplished people, some with advanced degrees in physics or engineering. These are not doctrines for nitwits. Something else is going on.
What's more, no one interested in what religions are and how they begin can ignore them. While vast barriers may seem to stretch between a local, single-focus contention of pseudoscience and something like a world religion, the partitions are very thin."
In chapter two Sagan says the following.
"The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance."
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In the UK it is legal to abort a Down's Syndrome baby up until the moment of birth
by LoveUniHateExams inthere was a recent legal challenge, brought about by a woman who herself has down's, which sought to overturn this sad state of affairs.. and a few days ago, a judge upheld the original law and denied her legal challenge.
this is pretty sick, don't you think?.
pro-abortion people love to ridicule religious people who claim that life begins at conception, so the obvious question is, when does life actually begin?.
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Disillusioned JW
According to the OT Bible Yahweh/Jehovah when he was mad with the adult Israelites/Judahites and adult people of some other nations, he sometimes told his prophets that as punishment the wombs of pregnant women would be cut open (and thus that the babies inside would killed) and that very young children already born would be killed. Thus, according to the OT Bible Yahweh ordered and arranged people to carry out such executions (such as by arranging enemy nations of the Jews to do such). Thus, according to the Bible Yahweh is an abortionist and a murder of the very young.
Also, in the Bible Yahweh sometimes ordered the Jews to kill all of the people (including the children) of some of the Canaanite city states, even all of the cattle/livestock. Thus the account says Yahweh ordered abortions of human infants.
In the Bible children (including those in the womb) were viewed as property of their fathers. Thus when Yahweh (according to the Bible) ordered the executions, it was from the perspective of emotionally hurting the parents of those human fetuses and embryos and the already born children. In at least one case it was also due to disapproval of an infant in the womb, namely in the case of the first child conceived jointly by David and Bathsheba.
If you reject all abortions of human babies as evil, then you should also reject the God the Bible as evil. Further, you should then also reject the "Holy" (so-called) book of the Jewish religion and of Christianity as also evil and reject their religions.
Conservative/fundamentalist/evangelical Christians wake up!